Is conflict wanted?

[Bult]

Alright, I had the finer points wrong, but the fact remains if you go against the norm the chances are you'll be left out in the cold.

Additionally I was disappointed by the Arquael/Arabelle affair. I missed the initial gambit but was around for the fallout, and when I attempted to find out what had occured, all the people I asked who were involved stated they didn't wish to discuss the matter as it was too difficult/painful etc. The only way I had any vague idea of what had happened was when Jaethor gave the city a debrief, and sadly that felt like being told, "We had some fun, you weren't there, and its over now". I know you can't be present for every event that takes place, but it did feel like a very closed affair. Which was a shame, as witnessing the gods trade blows really got my blood pumping, and I'd wouldn't mind seeing a bit more of it!

[Oskar]

I still don't understand what Aaridan was doing wrong to begin with, I have drawn the conclusion he got disrespectful and deserved to be stoned. But his shouting with Diesus was Interesting and fun.

About the divine exchanging blows. I barely took note, it was boring to me all it was to me. Was the divine seeing who could urinate the farthest in my opinion. Nothing truly came from it that affected the world in my perspective.

I agree through about the banishment bit, that's just how it works in Golgonath it doesn't matter if you are better for the job or not. If you rise up at all it's banishment for you to save there spot on the circle.

Also I believe a major problem besides under-population is Laziness, people just don't seem to have the drive to really put a effort into it.

[David]

Aaridan was most likely out of line that took things a bit to far and personal making the shouts with Diesus meaningless. He was violating help rogues by trying to use his abilities against the leaders of Golgonath from my understanding and that is against help rogues.

Laziness often is due to stagnant unmotivating leaders in my mind, mixed in with a little lack of conflict being in a natural fighting guild. You have skills that you're designed to fight others with, but all you end up fighting are heretics and the like. That only is exciting for so long before it starts to get dull....One can only change when that person wants change....it cannot be expected to be given change. Go out and make change, granted lately it seems like change is few and far between when talking about trying to implement a bit of conflict.

I think that Akanbar's population is good enough to have a successful war, it's just with how high guard levels are and how difficult it is with the given patrols....just its going to be a endless war of marching on villages or until an economy collapse. Which will come first, my guess is the economy crashing.

I do tend to favor the whole not talking to enemies thing, but that is of course expecting that we all naturally hate one another in game that whenever I am in your location it should involve some sort of death. Talking to my enemy never really seemed like something I cared for or even got my character anywhere.

[Seig]

Take for example the happenings with Arabelle and Arquael. The results of that at least made some ripples outside just the two of them. Ichiban wanted to come after Arabelle and so on. I don't exactly know the details. But the point is, it raised some pulses and got people a bit riled up.

I agree on that point. I also feel that more could have been done with this as well. I know that because Arquael was in the presence of Arabelle, not only did that stuff happen, she also got fined for it to, which I thought was rediculous. Unfortunately for me at the time, I was out of action... I wish I could have been there.

Now, just putting this out there, but what Arabelle did, was spreading the evil that Golgonath needs to do more. I feel that if more evil things like this were to happen, it might cause more conflict. you might could even get Ysallyra involved to somehow -hopes-

[Oskar]

I agree on that point. I also feel that more could have been done with this as well. I know that because Arquael was in the presence of Arabelle, not only did that stuff happen, she also got fined for it to, which I thought was rediculous. Unfortunately for me at the time, I was out of action... I wish I could have been there.

Now, just putting this out there, but what Arabelle did, was spreading the evil that Golgonath needs to do more. I feel that if more evil things like this were to happen, it might cause more conflict. you might could even get Ysallyra involved to somehow -hopes-

I disagree, the Arabelle/Arquael thing was over the top. Rping something like that drives me crazy, it's a complete mockery of that kind of hardship people face in real life. Alas it is not my game and I should not be commenting on it.

What David said brings me to another question, how is the economy doing? The villages are still broke, so what good does alliances with them do?

I would also be interested in what the divine have to say, any ideas up there in the clouds?

He was violating help rogues by trying to use his abilities against the leaders of Golgonath from my understanding and that is against help rogues.

Well isn't that how things were done when he was in Golgonath? I over-read the bb when he was Gm you had to beat him to take his position, well that's basically what he was doing here, issueing a challenge to Diesus claiming to be a better leader.

[David]

Oskar: You don't have to look that far to try to understand the whole theory behind the Gpolitics....every single position is meant to be a power position, at any given time if one feels they're more powerful than the current leader then they should be able to issue that challenge to them to take that spot. Aaridan made those laws of the guild and they got thrown aside right after he left the guild to Ysallyra because a person that isn't a fighter took over.I don't know exactly where that theory got lost along the way, I understand that you can't just have a new challenge each day for the position of MOA or the other Master spots....but given the stagnant like war we are currently having....it sure would be a nice change a pace to get the "fat" removed and that Golgonath can start to spread the evil that my character tries to stop.

It's that or Golgonath should truly just declare themselves up for the war and admit to not spreading evil....It's always a tough thing to judge, but it goes back to why did you as a person chose your character to be within a fighting guild? If I was a Forsaken, Pyromancer, Legion....clearly I'd push to be the most powerful person out there because that is the fondation of those guilds.

Elysian fighting guilds are meant to stop those three guilds from gaining that power and destroying the realm........Ysallyra is a great mix that can offer a great challenge with any guild they offer. I think Lord Jaethor was here saying to take a chance.....so take a chance sir....challenge yourself and challenge others to be great. I think a lot of times we as a population are more rough on our own citymates than we are on the city we are at war with.

[Seig]

okay let me rephrase what I said earlier. I'm not saying that what they did was completely right or anything like that, I was just stating that things of the like are the types of things that should happen to stir up conflict. like for example, I remember Ashrabia holding Tiki captive when he was a master of golgonath, and forcing... uhh... think it was Viridiana to try and come save her. you could roleplay that out, and it could also help stir things up.

Also... again I am not saying that I support the thing between Arquael and Arabelle but... you said it yourself Oskar

"Its ... kind of hardship people face in real life."

It is something that happens in real life. why can't it happen in Akanbar? I do know that both parties in this had an agreement that it was okay before it ever happened. I just wish other people hadn't gotten offended.

[Viridiana]

Okay, you've both made excellent points. Maybe I'm not a motivating leader. I accept that. And I do realize I've gotten a bit lazy (RL drama notwithstanding) so I have a hard time dedicating some real bash time. But whatever, that's not your guys' problem.

So here is my proposed solution that I plan to bring up to Bralnok next time I see him: We go back to the 'old ways' of Golgonath per HELP GPOLITICS. Open elections back up to where citizens vote for Inner Circle members (while the MOA can still only be appointed by the Lord Patron).

For those of you with a larger thirst for power, go to the Patron and challenge the current MOA. (More on the Patron later). Prove yourself worthy by combat or however the Patron decides to test. If it is still Bralnok, well he made the damn rules so chances are it -will- be combat. If you succeed, get out there and motivate. Turn our poor stagnant city around, so then everyone can point their fingers at you when they grow bored and start asking 'where is this city going?'

Yes I know that sounded bitchy, I apologize for that. My point is it's very easy to point fingers, blame the leadership, etc. That's why I'm going to petition to have elections opened back up at least for the Inner Circle. So people can actually -do- something about it. And via elections, not that combat silliness. I refuse to believe a knowledgeable Master of the Hoard or Gold should be replaced by an ignorant combatant just because the latter hits harder and wants to push slaves and women around.

Now on to Patrons. Bralnok's appearance (albeit brief) was exciting. He made some serious ripples in Golgonath for a little while, then POOF. Gone.... With so much in Golgonath depending on a Patron I think it's a little absurd that one comes in with such an impact then disappears for weeks (months?) at a time. Don't get me wrong I adore Bralnok but even Erebus shows up more often than him now. We need our Patron. We need -a- Patron.

/rant

[Zycandos]

With regards this whole Golgonian leadership structure question. It has been discussed far more than most people realize, often with heated debates with different people arguing for the various options. Golgonath is currently on its third major change in politics, and has had several more minor ones along the way.

There are without doubt pros and cons to each method, and you often find that when you are in one form, people argue for another.

There will no doubt be more discussions, more debate. However the bulk of these will occur in Golgonath, with Golgonians.

[Oskar]

Golgonath is currently on its third major change in politics, and has had several more minor ones along the way.

I say we dump the whole MoA position all together, it seems to hurt the game more than help. Granted I understand it goes with the whole Rp of Golgonath, and variety is fun. But Being different isn't always a good thing, and when one person that owns the city says what's going to happen and not many agree, or worse yet! Is not around to say anything at all? Well then things go broke, like they have, had, and will do again like this.

David: Oskar doesn't stand by in Golgonath, he pushes the boundaries to try and raise questions. He is border-line dis-respectful, true. But nothing changes, he is in the same position he has been in for almost the time he came to Golgonath. He wouldn't even be there right now if being a Black Legion didn't match his character's believes.

It is something that happens in real life. why can't it happen in Akanbar? I do know that both parties in this had an agreement that it was okay before it ever happened. I just wish other people hadn't gotten offended.

Seig: People are going to get offended, that's what happens in conflict of this nature. Also I hate it for personal reasons, I just feel it's a mockery. It's very hard to Roleplay such a traumatic event, then expect others to believe such a horrible thing is ok to act out? That is asking quite a lot. I blame it on being human. Yes, it didn't hurt anyone in the process. But where do we draw the line? We are still real people behind these monitors, and how can someone believe that acting out something this horrible is ok? Just because it's acting?

[Bult]

I say we dump the whole MoA position all together, it seems to hurt the game more than help. Granted I understand it goes with the whole Rp of Golgonath, and variety is fun. But Being different isn't always a good thing, and when one person that owns the city says what's going to happen and not many agree, or worse yet! Is not around to say anything at all? Well then things go broke, like they have, had, and will do again like this.

Without offering my opinion too much either way, it may be worth noting that the greatest level of inter realm conflict in my living memory occured during a time that Golgonath was in a dominant position, and at that time they had a full inner circle but no master of all.

[Viridiana]

He wouldn't even be there right now if being a Black Legion didn't match his character's believes.

Since when does the Black Legion not believe in killing poor defenseless villagers? Or anyone weaker for that matter? And by that logic the Black Legion would also be against repressing villages via military occupation.

By Oskar's own IC admission he is not 'evil.' He wants power and strength which is why he joined the Legion. And for all intents and purposes he achieved that. I daresay he's the most powerful killer in Golgonath aside from maybe Rethca? But personally, I don't feel Oskar's ideals match that of Golgonath's. Sure he wants strength and power, but where's the drive and ambition for dominion over others? If someone just wants to be the most powerful in the lands they can do that with any guild in any city (as been proven by a few individuals). But it's the character's actions and ideals that determine their station within a city's political and hierarchical structure.

But where do we draw the line? We are still real people behind these monitors, and how can someone believe that acting out something this horrible is ok? Just because it's acting?

As opposed to War, Murder, Arson, Espionage, Betrayal, Public Execution, Kidnapping, Torture, Manipulation, Mutilation, Gratuitous sex.. All of which are very present in Akanbar.

Where -do- we draw the line? Different people have different tolerance levels for events and situations. That is why OOC consent and discussion takes place between the parties involved. Don't judge others by what they choose to do because you don't agree with it. Especially if you are not involved in the first place.

[Oskar]

Viridiana: I will not defend my character to you or how he should act. Just because he sees no reason to kill worthless beings doesn't mean he does not believe in military occupation. Do try not to make assumption alright?

I don't feel Oskar's ideals match that of Golgonath's. Sure he wants strength and power, but where's the drive and ambition for dominion over others?

Now that is a load of crap, if that is true where does Marissa, or Viridiana fit into that? I haven't seen one bone of domination over others in either of them. Sure she is the Mistress of War, but what does she do? Kidnap Arqueal, really dominating there. She puts in about as much effort as every other Golgonian as well, which is about 50%.

[Jaethor]

Enough. Take the Golgonath chit-chat to messages, private tells or angry parchments left on doorsteps. The next person to keep this argument going will be have their armour destroyed and spine torn from their body while they are still living.