Why crystal accrual is crippling Akanbar

[Tsianina]

Once bashing has lost its allure, the only thing there is to do in Akanbar is stuff that involves other people. Helping guildmates, meeting with family or lovers or friends, roleplaying, developing activities and carrying them out, singing, fighting, whatever. It all needs other people. That's why it's a MUD and not just a D. We're here for other people. [In case you don't know, MUD stands for Multi-User Dungeon.]

But there's just not a lot of people around. So as long as people don't stay logged on long enough for their online time to overlap, nothing ever gets started. Alice logs on, finds no one is around, does a few things and then runs out of stuff to do, still no one interesting around, logs off. Bill logs on, does the same thing, doesn't see Alice because she already logged off. Later, Clara does the same thing, then Dave, then Alice again. No one's time overlaps because no one hangs out in hopes of seeing someone else.

But if Alice stayed, maybe when Bill logged on, he'd stay, because he could interact with Alice. And then Clara would be more likely to stay too. Just one person staying can be the grain of sand that makes the oyster form the pearl.

Why doesn't this happen? Well, for most people, they're not willing to stay around and use up their own time just in hopes of precipitating some activity. But in Akanbar, that's the tip of the iceberg. In Akanbar, if Alice stays in hopes of helping make something happen in Akanbar, then everyone else is going to constantly harass her, shower her with suspicion. She's not doing it in hopes of making something happen: she's doing it out of some puerile desire for crystals. Even if she's unsurp in all skills, people will still be suspicious and she'll still be forced to be defensive.

Everything else in Akanbar is perpetually poisoned by that paranoia that everyone's just trying to cheat for crystals. Every single thing that happens is tainted by it. Everything is held back by it.

I see only two solutions. 1) Give Akanbar enough interesting solo things to do that the odds of Alice still being around before Bill logs on increase to the point where it's the rule, not the exception. 2) Change the way crystals are accrued somehow. Make it depend not on sheer time, but on productive time (so it comes with things that earn exp), maybe. Or give me a command by which I can turn off accruing crystals, and give everyone else a command that shows who has it turned off, so people can check each other and thus turn off the paranoia and harassment. Or something. The exact details are worth brainstorming... only if there's a chance they might happen.

Unfortunately, I suspect that if either of these could happen under the circumstances, they would have happened long ago, so I suspect that they're never ever going to happen.

In my case, I don't need crystals. If I did, I could just buy the damned things. The only reason I hung around, even though hours would go by with nothing happening (so while I was always a few seconds away from the screen, I wasn't always staring intently at it), is in hopes that I would help make it so something would happen. But I am just too tired of being constantly on the defensive about it.

So I won't be logging in anymore, except for the couple of minutes it takes for me to do specific things. And thus, the cycle of inactivity perpetuates itself.

[Xinia]

While it is true that there is a certain lack of activities to do in Akanbar, I don't think changing the crystal accumulation is the solution. I've been part of muds where they have lessons learned over time and where you basically buy lessons with either IG or RL money. I have to say that the overall accumulation of lessons is by far the best way.

PRODUCTIVITY EARNS YOU CRYSTALS
Although my character would disagree, I rather like the social aspect of muds. It's why I play muds and not world of warcraft-esque games. You have the chance to stop and immerse yourself in your character through roleplay and other social things. You don't just spend the majority of the game pressing macros, collecting items and hunting. You have the option of RP battling an evil kidnapper on top of a tower, have a guild lecture on history or ethics, learn to waltz in the middle of farmland... the options are near endless. If it switches to productivity, people won't want to roleplay or stop to smell the roses. They'll want crystals and if they had to choose between emoting with friends or racing around on their system, we'll all be quest running.

WALL-STARING DISEASES
I think instead of changing crystals, people should reinforce the no-idling policy more. I remember in my earlier stay here, a fellow citizen was caught inattentive. He was killed by a god, given a disfavor by the city (still not sure what that does) and fined 20 gold coins. People nowadays either don't want to make an ally angry at them or are friends with the person and don't want them to get into trouble. As for a way to fix this? I honestly have no idea, but it's up to the organizations the person belongs to to fix it.

NOTHING TO DO BUT THE KITCHEN SINK
(*cough*) This is a problem I've faced in other muds, but to a much much much smaller degree. No offense to any admin, as we've made it this way as well. The problem is people get sick of questing and hunting. That's usually when people sit around and talk, but you can only talk so much. What's needed is basically a wider range of things for people to get sick of. It's honestly the best cure I can think of. As in, I like Tsianina's first idea (P6). Second and third, not so much. So what's there to do besides bashing and quest? Maybe a series of challenges that'll visibly help your guild or city. Not simple quests or hunting to increase politics, but something else. I just woke up so don't count on me to come up with one right now. But honestly, that's the best thing I can think of. If you're sick of questing, you hunt. If you're sick of hunting, you quest. If you're sick of both, you're screwed. But what if we had five, ten more options? It'd take a healthy chunk of coding and a heck of a brainstorming session, but hey, we all have gobs of free time since we're bored. Why not put our brains to work here?

tldr: don't change the way crystals accumulate, as that'd make Akanbar worse. Instead, increase fun things to do so people will have fun and stick around, rather than stick around out of obligation. Also, think of ideas here or on a similar thread. Seriously, start thinking.

[Xinia]

Pyrok's post

So, apparently Pyrok spent a good chunk of his time writing up a post to find out he can't post once more (his forum account has been wonky with letting him post) so I'll be posting what he wanted to say. I haven't actually read it yet, so don't start yelling at me if it's "we should blow up the world and start over" or something. Hopefully his account'll start working so he can reply. Anyway:

When I see posts like that, it saddens me, primarily because I've been playing Akanbar for so long and i know what it used to be like.
But getting off my sentimental high horse, I've got several ideas that I want to put forth.

-Opposing villages lay siege to realms (eg Grebnarsh/Lymr for Elysium, Ogres/Forloch for Ysallyra, Avenwold/Monadh-Dach for Golgonath)

- Dwarves develop cannons originally for mine use, a realm can 'discover' (read: learn like sailing) how to use them in a war setting (Cities can create cannons to put on ships)

- With the advent of cannons, piracy skyrockets, coastal villages are under constant attack from Baresh corsairs and Carmena marauders)

- This one has been talked about in Ysallyra for a long long time, Forsakens losing Shadows. But instead of gaining a whole new skill (which isn't desirable judging from people I've talked with about it) they learn either
Spirits or Rituals (Spirits is far more interesting i think)

- Heretics spread from the Abbey, your job is to beat them back into their hole (regularly occurring event)

- Reopen the Great Dungeon.

- Economic crises, depressions, recessions, trade embargoes, sanctions, boycotts... stock market crash!

- Wyverns and drakes leave the plains of ash to attack the cities in great numbers (no reference to my books. really.)

- Villages under occupation attempt to repel their oppressive overlords, village militias.

- Duke of Welsbury is found dead, and amidst a political power play, you must prove that Jerod is the true heir to maintain the current state of the village (or don't, if you prefer a change in Welsbury)

- Village influencing: If a member of another realm attacks a village, the standings of their allied realm will drop unless the attacker is killed (it makes sense, really. wouldn't you come to save your fief village?)

- Plague! It's happened once, and was easily cured with deathsbane, but this time its back and more persistent, a new, more powerful cure must be found. (And the plague will keep coming back)

- Herb rot, a disease has struck the herb plants resulting in a severe shortage of a random set of herbs

- Writs of Execution: Assassins now have actual targets to kill, these could be found out by asking Turiacus about 'writs', the Master Assassin can also set special writs on other players (could be a cause for some wonderful roleplay)

That's just some of what I have thought up. If anyone thinks this is a great idea, don't just give it lip service! Idea this, and anything else you can think of, and further more, while I understand people will say that we need to fix the guilds first, this thread is dedicated to the creation of ideas and discussion of them. I'm not saying Gods should do this immediately, but it's worth discussing. Really.

[Pyrok]

Damn, the bold fonts didn't work
What the hell? I can quick reply but not new reply?!

[Aaridan]

I like them all, but the herb rot would be a bit extreme. It takes Apothecaries a very long time to achieve them unless the rot was spread throughout all Merchant type classes. Like Weapons become corroded after a long age, bottles break in time, food loses nourishment value after each day...etc etc. I doubt anyone would like that though, no one really likes their long spent hours on their trade resulting in nothing

[Kresslack]

I more or less agree with everything that's been said. There's only so much you can do right now in Akanbar, as an individual before you simply run out of things to do. And with as few people there are, not really much interaction available either. I'll scour the city three or four times enlisting, go hit up the forests looking for trees to chop down, run around doing what little quests I know and am able to do as an individual, then go kill what I can for some experience. After that, if there's no one talking to me or nothing going on, there's nothing else to do but sit around. Lately I've been taking to working on books as a hobby to pass time, but it gets annoying when you're sitting there and will actually be doing something, and suddenly you go from full to starving immediately. If you don't want people sitting around, give them something to do. New quests, land wide events like Xinia was setting up. It's getting boring, and added with the constant harassment based on suspicion of idling for crystal gain, it's just not worth it. Crystals aren't that big a deal to me, I don't pay much attention to them and every once in a while I'll check and be like, "Wow, I've about 200 crystals." Which gives me something to do via going to learn, and then spending hours experimenting with my new skills. But lately, Akanbar is really turning into to Akan-Bah. [/rant]

[Xinia]

Yea, with the lack of merchants, it'd be a pain if certain things rotted.

Honestly, I would be interested in some sort of limit on politics. Maybe have villages butt heads. If your city is allied to city A, city B doesn't want to associate with you, thusly preventing cities from having both of them. It'll keep villages from dominating village politics across the board. On the other hand, other villages should make attempts to trade, besides Elysium. A few of us in Elysium are starting to push for the anti-Lymr (and other "evil" villages) raids (ref: Gaetana and others).

EDIT: Apparently I spent too long on this post and didn't notice Kresslack's reply. I don't want to double post

What I was going for wasn't so much events as other concepts at the same level as questing and hunting. Remiel and I were bouncing ideas off of each other and I came up with one I liked (but later was shown that it was very similar to another mud I played and must've subconsciously summoned). Basically, say you're part of a group. The Elysian guard. You start out as an apprentice (going with general titles) and you get simple quests. After you do enough simple quests (kill the Golgonan sppy sneaking through the city... or go fetch something from someone), you get a promotion. Then you become a soldier. You're sent out on missions. You have to bring back the head of Arivost, the Baresh slaver... or you have to defend a city's trade cart as it goes to Khazir. From there, if you are a good enough soldier, you can enter into the rankings. Say there are the top five soldiers in the Elysian guard. If you're number one, you become the "Champion of Elysium" or some title like that. Every month, the rankings get updated. etc.

[Kresslack]

What I was going for wasn't so much events as other concepts at the same level as questing and hunting. Remiel and I were bouncing ideas off of each other and I came up with one I liked (but later was shown that it was very similar to another mud I played and must've subconsciously summoned). Basically, say you're part of a group. The Elysian guard. You start out as an apprentice (going with general titles) and you get simple quests. After you do enough simple quests (kill the Golgonan sppy sneaking through the city... or go fetch something from someone), you get a promotion. Then you become a soldier. You're sent out on missions. You have to bring back the head of Arivost, the Baresh slaver... or you have to defend a city's trade cart as it goes to Khazir. From there, if you are a good enough soldier, you can enter into the rankings. Say there are the top five soldiers in the Elysian guard. If you're number one, you become the "Champion of Elysium" or some title like that. Every month, the rankings get updated. etc.[/QUOTE]

I like this idea, and is something I in a way tried to do in Ysallyra. Instead of just picking people and making them guards, I wrote up some requirements for basic necessary skills and items needed for a person to enter the guard. This is something I will have to re-evaluate and pitch to the Council for approval, but ranks beyond Captain and Guard are needed I think, even if they're only IC'ly implied. Start out as a Recruit, work your way up to Private, Corporal, Sergent, etc. Of course these can be edited for more appropriate names. Setting up quests for them to complete for promotion, alongside actual service in the position, is a good idea I think. Not only does it give people something to do, but it gives them something to strive for.

[Xinia]

well, I was talking about it being coded into the mud, not just player run... and not for like, the legit guard/captainship, but just a group. I guess it could work as guard, but captain I wouldn't put as it for the champion spot, as then you'd get person A from Golgonath joining Elysium, claiming to have changed. They join the guard, do the quests, become captain and totally obliterate Elysium's guard layout, thus ushering Golgonan armies to obliterate the city.

Anyway, I've learned that if it's a mortal doing it, it'll get shot down and/or told that it's too strict. If it's an optional coded thing, like a series of quests, it'll be enjoyable. It'll also not depend on "oh, I never see Kresslack, so I can't do this". I'm not saying all things should be coded. Fun events like scavenger hunts and other social things should not be, but stuff like this I'd rather see coded

[Pyrok]

What I meant by rotting was not rotting in your inventory, or in a shop, or anything like that. What i meant is a disease afflicting a random set of unpicked herbs. Yes that also irritates the merchants picking them, as it messes up their planting schemes, but some of you have voiced a desire for an aspect of realism...i think it would be realistic to see herbs rot. Not all three hundred of them (or whatever amount that gets afflicted) but a certain percentage will basically be completely useless.

Hopefully that clears things a little.

[Chyren]

I've offered to help code things a handful of times before now, and been shot down because I'm not of the /god/ tier.

I wouldn't even go so far to say it's crystals, but the fact that it is always player run things happening in Akanbar these days. Unless I missed something big (Lol), I haven't heard or seen of anything for the past couple months that a god/goddess ran as an event. Hell, I can't even remember the -last- event we had. Was there anything after the magi twins who led us to Carmena? Maybe the plays that Sekea would do with npcs.

The cycle of Akanbar is..bash, bash, quest, eat, piss off city X, raid, raid, war, raid, war, war, raid, bash, raid, raid, bash. Peace. Begin again.

Edit: Throw in mudsex and chit-chat somewhere. It really doesn't matter where. It might be best to have it as an overlapping one on them all.

[Xinia]

Eh, I've read the idea board. Most of it is "let's do this skill" "no, you can't drag people away" "Yes, you should be able to"

As for not being able to do things cause you're not of the god tier, that doesn't mean you can't pitch ideas. Sure, they're not going to give you the key to their factory immediately. They gotta make sure you're not some tubby kid or girl who wants a goose. You pitch ideas, work hard and if they go "uh, that idea sucks", you move on and try something else. If they don't ever let you into their code, you shrug and be happy to be an oompa loompa. Personally, I would rather be a mortal than a god. Gods get whined at, have to always be working, tinkering away at things. As a mortal, you get social interaction, struggle, goals, etc.

But yea, just come up with ideas. That's what helps the most.

[Chyren]

...Okay then, thanks for that advice. (..My mind is saying 'WTF?' but I had to be nice.)

I hate being a mortal in Akanbar. It's repetitive, boring, and there aren't any real things that make you sit back and say, 'Damn..I accomplished something.' Why? Because someone can undo it in one day. Thus, guildhop, cityhop. New things to do, new people to bitch at. But then you remember, these people are just like the last set, except for different skills and more or less intelligent. Fun times.

[Xinia]

if you want a translation: suck it up. They're not going to let you screw up years of their work just cause you want to help code. There are other ways to help without directly coding. Not just IG player ways, but pitching ideas helps. If they think your idea is good enough, heck, they may do it. Or they might not, but at least you tried and they see that. Instead of demanding their trust, why not try earning it?

Try and be constructive, not destructive. That's what a few of the forum threads are dedicated to. Put forth ideas, discussing and shaping them into something do-able.

Edit: (and by the way, it's not really being nice if you still say the thing, then say that you weren't going to say it. It kind of defeats the purpose)

[Kresslack]

...Okay then, thanks for that advice. (..My mind is saying 'WTF?' but I had to be nice.)

I hate being a mortal in Akanbar. It's repetitive, boring, and there aren't any real things that make you sit back and say, 'Damn..I accomplished something.' Why? Because someone can undo it in one day. Thus, guildhop, cityhop. New things to do, new people to bitch at. But then you remember, these people are just like the last set, except for different skills and more or less intelligent. Fun times.

I'm starting to see this a lot.